Is the Bible from God?

Is the Bible really from God? I just did a workshop on this very topic for about 60 5th and 6th graders at Bayside Church in Granite Bay, CA. I wanted to help Christian kids talk about this stuff with their friends. But I knew it had to be simple to get and easy to remember. We ended up having a ton of fun with games, activities, stories and illustrations that helped these ideas to stick.

After each session, parents told me how much they appreciated the lesson. Just another reminder that adults appreciate “simple,” too.

In this post, I’ll show you a quick way to work through the question, “Is the Bible really from God?” and I’ll also give you a little memory device to help you remember 3 reasons skeptics should pay attention to the Bible. But first, you need to know that when it comes to the Bible, there are only two ways of looking at it.

Only 2 Options

The Bible says that it’s God’s message to us (2 Tim 3:16-17). That’s either true or it’s not. So is there any reason to think the Bible’s more than just a book written by men? What kind of book is the Bible? We’ve only got two answers here:

  1. It’s just a bunch of stories and ideas about God, written by people.
  2. It’s actually the Word of God, given to people.

Here’s how I opened up this segment for the kids:

  • Mikel: “How many of you have read a book you really enjoyed this summer? Shout out the name of an author you like.”
  • Students: (Various answers, including Agatha Christie, J.K. Rowling, C.S. Lewis, etc…)
  • Mikel: Now do you think all these people would have the same views on the things adults say you’re not suppose to talk about at parties: politics and religion. Do you think they’d all agree?
  • Students: No.
  • Mikel: Of course not. No big surprise there, right?. No, the big surprise comes when you look at the Bible…

3 Reasons Skeptics Should Pay Atention to the Bible

Picture a UPS truck delivering Bibles, because the letters U, P, and S can help you remember 3 reasons sketpics should pay attention to the Bible. These are 3 simple talking points you can share with a friend or even your own kid.

Think of it in terms of cause and effect. The Bible’s an effect. What’s the cause? If the Bible was just a book written by men, it would be pretty tough to explain these:

1. Its Unity

The “U” can help you remember the word, unity. The Bible is surprisingly unified. When you hold the Bible in your hands, you’re holding a collection of 66 ancient documents. They were originally written in 3 languages: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. We’re talking about 40 different authors, writing over a span of 1,500 years! Imagine these guys writing in different times, places, languages and cultures.

Still, each author agrees with the others on highly controversial, ethical and religious topics. More importantly, they’ve all got 1 unified message about God.

2. Its Prophecy

The “P” can help you remember the word, prophecy. The Bible records accurate predictions of the future that came true. A couple of examples are specific prophecies about Jesus and Israel.

Predictions about Jesus

The Old Testament prophets said the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10), in the line of King David (2 Samuel 7:12-13), born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2). 700 years before Jesus was born, the Jewish Prophet Isaiah predicted very specific things about the Messiah (Ch. 53). For example:

  • He’d be flogged
  • He’d die with wicked people
  • He’d be buried like a rich person

Over 1,000 years before Jesus was born–King David predicted the Messiah’s hands and feet would be pierced, but not even one of his bones would be broken (Psalm 22). All of this came true about Jesus, the Messiah.

[Tweet “1,000 years before Jesus, David predicted the Messiah’s hands and feet would be pierced.”]

Predictions about Israel

Isaiah also predicted the Jewish people would return to their homeland a 2nd time (11:11-16). The 1st time they went back in was in the 6th century with Ezra and Nehemiah. But Israel was kicked out again in A.D. 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. This second return happened when Israel became a nation in 1948. I told the kids:

This is real stuff some of your grandmas and grandpas might have seen! If not, their parents definitely saw this on the news.

3. It’s Still here!

The “S” can help you remember that the Bible’s still here! Why’s this a big deal? Because people have tried to eradicate the Bible from the face of the earth and it just won’t go away. Not only that, it’s still the world’s number one bestseller.

These are just the beginning. If you really take the time to look into this, you’ll see we’ve got good reason to believe that the Bible isn’t just ideas about God, written by people. The Bible is the Word of God, given to people.

Fact or Fiction:

Can I Trust My Bible?
This workshop was based on lesson 4 from my new Accessible Apologetics curriculum for youth and adults. Includes games, illustrations, PowerPoint and more. Download a free lesson from the series.

Leaders: Get my FREE 6-part course on How to Run an Accessible Apologetics Conference. Sign-up now.

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35 Responses to “Is the Bible from God?”

  1. J.W. Wartick July 24, 2011 8:21 PM
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    Great post! I really like the methodology you use to teach _SIMPLY_ that the Bible is the word of God. I’ll be referencing this as an apologetic resource when I teach my own children (many years from now).

    • Apologetics Guy July 24, 2011 10:40 PM
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      Yes, simple is good. If we teach these ideas in way kids can easily get and remember, they’re more apt to share them. Maybe even dig in a little deeper as they get older. I appreciate the comment. Thanks, JW!

  2. Taber's Truths Christian Blog July 25, 2011 7:57 AM
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    Great lesson my friend! Some of us are gifted with the ability to really teach! Keep going for it! I sent a tweet out to now over 1100 followers. This was good!

    Blessings!
    Duke

  3. Adam Woeger July 27, 2011 11:36 AM
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    Yes, the Holy Bible is The Word Of God. It is so easy and simple, yet so hard for many to comprehend and believe. The enemy surely blocks many minds from accepting this essential fact. Thank God for The Light of His Word!

  4. Korinthian August 18, 2011 6:20 AM
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    Unity? I could have bought that if there were no contradictions, or if the books hadn’t been based on the same previous books, or if the stories hadn’t been heavily edited and hand-picked.

    Prophecy? Jesus wasn’t related to King David because his father wasn’t Joseph to whom the lineage is traced.

    The bible is still here? No wonder the parents called the lessons “simple”. This argument could apply to anything that’s old and debated.

    Also, these arguments could be used on pretty much any holy book.

    I am disappoint.

  5. Apologetics Guy August 20, 2011 2:50 PM
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    Thanks, Duke. I appreciate your support in helping to get the word out. God bless the Christian Blog Crawl! :-)

  6. Apologetics Guy August 20, 2011 2:52 PM
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    Adam, I appreciate your comments. This is why God’s given us apologetics for our part in the spiritual battle! 2 Cor. 10:3-5

  7. Apologetics Guy August 20, 2011 3:10 PM
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    Hey, Korinthian. Not sure which difficulties you’re saying are actually irreconcilable contradictions. Tough for me to take this view seriously without something specific. You’re not just asking me to just take it on faith, are you? ;-)

    There are literally hundreds of Biblical prophecies that have been accurately fulfilled. Why single out this one? Are you saying you believe Jesus was born of a virgin?

    You might be a bit confused about this. If Jesus was actually Joseph’s biological son, He couldn’t be the Messiah because of Jechoniah’s curse. To be a Jewish king, you’d have to be in the line of David apart from Jechoniah. Jesus was in the line of David, totally apart from Jechoniah through his mom, Mary.

    You also said, “These arguments could be used on pretty much any holy book.” Not true. For example, you can’t say the Qur’an is unified like the Bible is. The Qur’an is just one book (not 66), written in one language (not 3), and recording the recitation of one guy (not 40 authors). Why would the unity of the Qur’an be a big deal?

    Look into the stuff for yourself. It’s fascinating! Thanks for the interaction, Korinthian.

  8. Korinthian August 22, 2011 3:57 PM
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    If you take one thing on faith it’s only fair that you take other things on faith, otherwise it is just self-deception. Strive to remove bias where you can. But I don’t expect you to take anything I say on faith.

    One contradiction: the order in which the universe was created (Gen 1, Gen 2). There are two versions of this that contradict each other.

    I just chose a prophecy you already mentioned. I’m, of course, not saying that Jesus was born of a virgin, but I am assuming you are of that opinion. Both lineages mentioned in the bible (that also contradict each other) go to Joseph (Luke 3:23, Matthew 1:1-16).

    “Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

    the son of Heli”

    “Matthan the father of Jacob,
    and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah”

    Oh hey, I guess Joseph had two different fathers too. I guess things get messed up when you have so many authors writing in Unity.

    The fun thing about prophecies is that they only convince Christians, other people realize that prophecies can be fulfilled easily inside fiction, and that there’s such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. You don’t trust the prophecies of other religions, and you don’t wake the same weak excuses that you no doubt offer in defense of your holy book.

    Fine, I realize not all holy books are written by lots of authors (Hence “pretty much”), but the two other points still remain. Besides, the “Unity” point is not a sign of divine power, it’s a sign that the authors had read the same books and/or that they belonged to the same cult.

    Sounds reasonable, does it not?

    I’ve read the bible a few times and if you read it without making excuses for the mistakes found therein it instantly becomes obvious why Christians need constant reinforcement of their beliefs. Ducking and weaving, throwing out sentences like “It’s a metaphor” or “I’m sure there’s a reason why God couldn’t dictate a book that wouldn’t split Christianity into 10,000 parts” wouldn’t work for me; I wouldn’t feel honest.

  9. Apologetics Guy August 22, 2011 11:06 PM
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    Korinthian,

    Glad you see my point about the Qur’an. It’s totally different from the Bible. I appreciate you taking the time to leave comments on my blog, but I think you’re being unfairly skeptical here. Seems kind of naive to assume ancient writers from other cultures would write like 21st century reporters for the Chicago Tribune.

    How much have you studied Genesis 1 and 2? Chapter 1 gives an outline of the narrative and Chapter 2 focuses on the 6th day. I teach a Public Communication course and I’d never tell a student they were wrong if they shared a chronological outline of their childhood and then focused in on the day of they graduated from high school. Would you?

    Ever studied ancient eastern practices of recording families? The original audience would get that Heli was Mary’s dad and Joseph was his son-in-law. If you haven’t studied this a lot, you should approach the Christian Scriptures and other books of ancient history with careful scholarship and open mindedness. Would you tell my father-in-law he was wrong if he called me,”son?”

    You also said, “The fun thing about prophecies is that they only convince Christians, other people realize that prophecies can be fulfilled easily inside fiction, and that there’s such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.” What do you mean by that?

    For example, how are the details of Jesus’ crucifixion under the Roman government (a historical event uncontested by virtually every critical scholar), predicted 500 years before hand, a self-fulfilling prophecy? And it’s false that these prophecies only convince Christians. For example, Lee Strobel, a former legal editor for the Chicago Tribune, became convinced that Christianity is true by using his legal and journalism training to investigate Biblical prophecy. You can read about his journey from atheism to Christianity in his book, “The Case for Christ.”

    I don’t know how any of these things call into question the supernatural origin of the Bible. Strive to remove bias where you can, Korinthian. I don’t expect you to take anything I say on faith, either. My advice is to seriously look into this stuff for yourself!

  10. Korinthian September 4, 2011 1:49 PM
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    First of all, sorry for the late reply. My Internet has been down and after that I had forgotten about this discussion until I found it buried in my tabs.

    “[The Qur’an] is totally different from the Bible”

    It’s really not. Like I have already explained, the “Unity” isn’t even an indication of divine origins. Don’t judge other holy books by your own, or you are not playing on a level field. A muslim could say that your book is false because it claims that Jesus had a godly dad.

    “I teach a Public Communication course and I’d never tell a student they were wrong if they shared a chronological outline of their childhood and then focused in on the day of they graduated from high school. Would you?”

    I’m glad you admit to the contradiction. If you don’t think chronological order is a big deal in the bible then suddenly prophecies aren’t that impressive anymore, are they? If Prophet a prophecied that a temple would crumble after it happened, then I’m a prophet too!

    “Ever studied ancient eastern practices of recording families? The original audience would get that Heli was Mary’s dad and Joseph was his son-in-law. If you haven’t studied this a lot, you should approach the Christian Scriptures and other books of ancient history with careful scholarship and open mindedness.”

    So you admit that the book is muddled and meant for an ancient audience and not a modern one. Sure it says one thing, but if you assume words mean the opposite of what the book says, then there exist no contradictions! Surely it’s clear to you that no divinely inspired book would read like this?

    [I speak about prophecies] “What do you mean by that?”

    People outside your religion aren’t convinced by your very best prophecies because they understand that they’re made up. As for self-fulfuling prophecies, they work like this: I make a prophecy in a phone that a pizza shall arrive on my doorstep, half an hour later it’s there. I’m clearly in touch with angels and the creator of the universe.

    Your prophecies aren’t impressive. Mormon prophecies aren’t impressive. Muslim prophecies aren’t either. You have to already believe to buy the magic that’s being hawked and sold. Do you seriously think you’d believe in witches, evil spirits and people waking from death if you weren’t religious?

    “For example, how are the details of Jesus’ crucifixion under the Roman government (a historical event uncontested by virtually every critical scholar), predicted 500 years before hand, a self-fulfilling prophecy?”

    Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you’re either making this up, or you are misinformed. But feel free to provide me with a link where I can find more information on this recorded historical event. Oh, and just for fun, try to provide me with a secular page.

    “Lee Strobel, a former legal editor for the Chicago Tribune, became convinced that Christianity is true by using his legal and journalism training to investigate Biblical prophecy. You can read about his journey from atheism to Christianity in his book, “The Case for Christ.””

    I have read that book. Have you noticed how he is extremely lenient in his “critical examination” of Christianity? Have you considered *who* he interviews, and more importantly: who he does not? Have you thought about that he assumes that the bible is true from the get-go? Have *you* ever critically examined Lee Strobel’s book?

    He says he is being critical, but any skeptical non-Christian could tell you that he’s throwing soft-balls (when he’s even throwing at all) through that entire book.

    Have you never met someone not a Christian to tell you this about the book? Have you not read texts on the Internet that rips that book apart? Are you perhaps new at this?

    “I don’t know how any of these things call into question the supernatural origin of the Bible. ”

    Here’s your problem. You, like Lee Strobel, assume that it’s divinely inspired from the start.

    With how many other books do you make that assumption? None?

    Who is the biased one? A person that assumes no books are supernatural in origin until it has been proven so, or a person that assumes one book is?

    “My advice is to seriously look into this stuff for yourself!”

    I have talked to many Christians over the past years, preachers included, and I have read a few books, watched videos by the greatest (according to Christians) apologists (like William Lane Craig) and many articles on the ‘net. I dare say that I have examined your side of the argument more than you have examined mine.

    Christianity has had 2000 years to provide evidence that a god exists, but the best thing that exists is a probably forged account by Josephus saying that “there’s a group called Christians and they believe that a guy named Jesus, brother of James, existed”. It’s kind of paltry.

    Anyways, that’s it for now. Sorry again for the late reply.

  11. Tom Gilson September 5, 2011 12:04 PM
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    Korinthian, I don’t know you from anywhere other than this discussion thread, but I’m willing to bet you value accuracy and good reasoning in debate. I want to encourage you to hold to those values.

    When you said, “I’m glad you admit to the contradiction,” that was either poorly reasoned or inaccurate; for Mikel had pointed out just why Genesis 1 and 2 are not in contradiction with one another. Maybe you think he’s wrong to think that, but regardless, you can’t accurately say he has admitted to any contradiction.

    Similarly when you wrote,

    If you don’t think chronological order is a big deal in the bible then suddenly prophecies aren’t that impressive anymore, are they? If Prophet a prophecied that a temple would crumble after it happened, then I’m a prophet too!

    … there was weakness in reasoning, for you failed to show that post-prophecy of that sort has any connection with anything Mikel wrote. I’m just suggesting to you that you might want to be careful to live up to values that you probably espouse.

    I assume, too, that you would not want to discount what a communication actually meant to the persons to whom it was made at the time when it was made. You know that people speak differently about family relationships in different times and cultures right? I’m a little puzzled, therefore, why you would call such a normal kind of communication situation “muddled.”

    I’m puzzled, too, why you would think this:

    As for self-fulfuling prophecies, they work like this: I make a prophecy in a phone that a pizza shall arrive on my doorstep, half an hour later it’s there. I’m clearly in touch with angels and the creator of the universe.

    … refutes this:

    how are the details of Jesus’ crucifixion under the Roman government (a historical event uncontested by virtually every critical scholar), predicted 500 years before hand, a self-fulfilling prophecy?

    When you order a pizza, you know in advance what’s going to happen because you have set a course of events in motion that will result in the outcome you predict. That’s exactly what happened with the prophecy of which Mikel spoke. Consider what it would take to predict with complete accuracy what night a pizza was going to be delivered at Mikel’s house. You would need inside information, perhaps from the pizza shop, maybe from Mikel himself, or maybe from actually ordering the pizza yourself. The prophets who predicted the details of Jesus’ crucifixion did not cause his crucifixion and they were not in touch with the Romans who did it, 500 years after the prophecy was written. But he did have inside information. Was it from some pizza shop?

    Mikel wasn’t making it up, by the way. Check out Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53.

    Your “critical examination” of Lee’s book misses the point. Strobel was an atheist who became convinced through fulfilled prophecy. That was what Mikel was trying to show, and you kind of changed the subject on him. Sound, accurate, legitimate reasoning, doesn’t operate on the basis of “let’s ignore the fact that you answered my question and ask a different one instead.”

    Here’s your problem. You, like Lee Strobel, assume that it’s divinely inspired from the start.

    Lee didn’t assume that from the start. The only way you could think that, it seems to me, is by yourself assuming it from the start, because you certainly didn’t come to that conclusion by way of reading evidence to that effect. And what is your evidence that Mikel assumed it from the start? You do value evidence, right?

    Finally, I want to juxtapose two things you have said:

    The bible is still here? No wonder the parents called the lessons “simple”. This argument could apply to anything that’s old and debated.

    and

    Christianity has had 2000 years to provide evidence that a god exists, but the best thing that exists is a probably forged account by Josephus saying that “there’s a group called Christians and they believe that a guy named Jesus, brother of James, existed”. It’s kind of paltry.

    The Bible has lasted for 2000 years in spite of 2000 years of repeated concerted attempts to disprove it. That’s what makes it so unique. It’s not just that the Bible hasn’t gone out of print. It’s that (in spite of what you might think) it has remained enormously influential on world culture, and no attempts to prove it wrong have succeeded.

    Be careful with that last line, by the way. If you’re not careful you’ll run the wrong way with it. I am confident you want to use sound reasoning in line with good evidences, though, so I don’t suppose I need to flesh out that warning any further.

    Specifically you won’t think I meant to say, “Because attempts to prove the Bible false have failed, therefore we can conclude it is true.” You will be careful to note that there is another argument into which “no attempts to prove it wrong have succeeded” fits. Right? I thought so. Thanks.

  12. Allie M. September 5, 2011 2:04 PM
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    Tom and Mikel, thanks for responding to Korinthian with the Truth. It’s extremely difficult to deal with people like him/her. They claim contradictions and assume if there’s some minor difference in description of events, it automatically disproves the Bible. They seem to misunderstand the doctrine of inerrancy. Inerrancy does not imply that, for example the four Gospels, HAVE to match each other to a T and there’s no room for differences. The Bible is inerrant on what it says about Jesus, about God, about our relationship with God, and the meaning behind the universe. It’s frustrating that skeptics attempt to ‘debunk’ Biblical prophecy by making it out to be like self-fulfilling prophecy. Biblical prophecy is concise whereas self-fulfilling prophecy is not prophecy at all.

  13. Korinthian September 10, 2011 2:15 PM
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    Hi Tom. Glad you decided to jump in.

    “for Mikel had pointed out just why Genesis 1 and 2 are not in contradiction with one another.”

    He really did. He admitted that the chronological order of creation isn’t the same in Genesis 1 as in Genesis 2. That is what a contradiction is.

    “… there was weakness in reasoning, for you failed to show that post-prophecy of that sort has any connection with anything Mikel wrote”

    Perhaps you’re not following my meaning. That was in answer to “Chronological order doesn’t matter that much”.

    “why you would call such a normal kind of communication situation “muddled.””

    So you’re saying the bible is just normal communication and not divinely inspired? If your book says one thing (Person X was Joseph’s father) and means the other (Person X was *Mary’s* father), then it is muddled. Wouldn’t you agree? Besides, it’s no secret that different denominations of Christianity read the book differently (trinity, no trinity. Jesus’ divinity, and the opposite. Hung on a cross, hung on a tree.) so that’s another point towards muddled.

    “The prophets who predicted the details of Jesus’ crucifixion did not cause his crucifixion and they were not in touch with the Romans who did it, 500 years after the prophecy was written. But he did have inside information. Was it from some pizza shop?”

    Not all biblical prophecies are self-fulfilling prophecies. Others are just made up. Fiction often works like that.

    “Your “critical examination” of Lee’s book misses the point. Strobel was an atheist who became convinced through fulfilled prophecy.”

    False. An atheist would not assume the bible to be true from page 1. Try reading that book without your Christian spectacles on and this will be glaringly obvious, or ask an atheist friend to do it for you. His book is not convincing to anyone but someone gullible or Christian and serves only as reinforcement of already instilled faith, not as conversion material or someone thinking.

    “Lee didn’t assume that from the start.”

    What then, in that book, indicates that he was in fact an atheist other than his saying so? If you want to compare his work to *actual* critical examination of your religion, read Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris. He’s not even scratching the surface of critical examination.

    Why doesn’t he interview any critics of Christianity? Why only yay-sayers? I know the answer to that question, and so should you.

    “The Bible has lasted for 2000 years in spite of 2000 years of repeated concerted attempts to disprove it. That’s what makes it so unique. It’s not just that the Bible hasn’t gone out of print. It’s that (in spite of what you might think) it has remained enormously influential on world culture, and no attempts to prove it wrong have succeeded.”

    Let me educate you.

    Just because something has been around for a very long time doesn’t make it true.
    Nobody has “disproved” any other religions either.
    Influence on culture doesn’t make it true either, it makes it influential.
    When you ask a Christian what would convince them that their beliefs are false, they usually can’t think of anything. That is a good sign of blind faith. Making the blind see is no easy feat.

    And you try to lecture me on sound reasoning :-)

    I appreciate your input, but the Apologeticsguy did a better job.

  14. ray October 4, 2011 4:46 AM
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    the overthrough. the revolt. satans revolt destroyed the earth,. thats why it was void and dark. that was the first earth age. this is the second earth age. god made man on the six day and then he rested. on the seventh. then the next day, that would be the eighth he formed man out of the dust of the ground. must be a special man. yes, the blood line of christ. the book is about adams family and all the people they came in contact with through their generations. history. his story. gods discription of him self in his own words is. I AM A MAN OF WAR, I KILL , I CREATE EVIL, I MAKE ALIVE., MY NAME IS YHVH FOREVER. ive tried five times to get this to go through.

    • Apologetics Guy October 4, 2011 10:45 AM
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      Hi, Ray. I’m sorry, but I’m not sure I understand the point of your comment. I’ve also deleted your additional submissions because they seemed incoherent and out of place here. Please clearly explain your views and how they relate to my original post. Let’s keep the discussion on-topic. Thanks.

  15. ray October 4, 2011 12:20 PM
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    sorry AP GUY. this is your house and and i should have realized that. im trying to learn about the bible. KJV. as far as contradiction in my learning their is none. do you think their is contradictions? he was talking about genesis 1. and 2. i think i know what he is talking about, but i know the reason why it is not a contradiction. it sounds like one, but its not. in my opinion the bible does not just come right out and say exactly what it means. in my opinion one has to care enough about our FATHER to take the time to use a strongs concordance or get a true translation from the hebrew manuscript. but how hard is that. very. so no man can understand the bible without a the tools or a teacher. but how do you find a real teacher called of god? but i can explain the contradiction of genesis 1. and 2. if someone will say exactly what they think it is. im new at this AP GUY so bare with me please. i dont want to get run off.

  16. ray October 4, 2011 2:10 PM
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    i see now what he is saying about genesis1. 2. on the six day

    god created man and everything else. then our FATHER rested

    on the seventh. then chapter 2. starts of by telling what he had

    done on first six days. but then its cut short . because our

    FATHER said he didnt have a man to till the ground. so he

    formed one to take care of the garden. specialy for that reason.

    different from all the other men our FATHER created on the six

    day. because he said he finished and rested on the seventh. so it

    had to be the eighth day he formed this special man or he did it

    on the seventh day while our FATHER was resting. or then it

    had to be the eighth day. because he said he made the birds and

    man and finished his work all that he had done on the six day

    and it was good, and rested. then2 chpter. our FATHER HAD NOT

    CAUSED IT TO RAIN ON THE EARTH SO NO HERB OF THE FEILD

    OR GRASS OR TREE HAD STARTED. SO HE CAUSED TO RAIN.

    realizeing he didnt have a man to till the ground formed adam.

    either on the seventh or the eighth. then it goes on to the

    location of the garden and the rivers . and adam got to name all

    the animals what ever he wanted, becaus he was special. their

    were already plenty of men from the six day but he had to have a

    very special man for this job, not just any old man would do for

    this job. thats what i get out of it AP GUY or this is what some

    one told me. is it right you think? their is so many different

    bibles and different kinds of churches, and they all say

    something different. what is a man to belive. how do you know

    who to trust? ap guy im trying to learn. dont give up on me

    please. im going by what some one has told me. i really want to

    know what you think. i can tell you are well educated. i am not.

    by the way, i know this is a stupid question, but why

    the”apologetics” part?

  17. Apologetics Guy October 4, 2011 11:37 PM
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    @Korinthian – No problem. I’ve been swamped with work, too. Good to see you’ve had some discussion with others on here. Let me respond to some of your ideas:

    ————————————————————
    AG: “I teach a Public Communication course and I’d never tell a student they were wrong if they shared a chronological outline of their childhood and then focused in on the day they graduated from high school. Would you?”

    K: “I’m glad you admit to the contradiction.”
    ————————————————————

    Please don’t mischaracterize my response. Genesis 1 is a general, chronological creation narrative and Genesis 2 is a detailed story about Adam and Eve. So what? Can you quote a couple specific verses that prove the contradiction?

    ————————————————————
    AG: “Ever studied ancient eastern practices of recording families? The original audience would get that Heli was Mary’s dad and Joseph was his son-in-law.”

    K: “So you admit that the book is muddled and meant for an ancient audience and not a modern one…Surely it’s clear to you that no divinely inspired book would read like this?”
    ————————————————————

    Please don’t mischaracterize my response. Of course, the book was written to an ancient audience. So? How do you know what a divinely inspired book would read like?

    ————————————————————
    AG: “For example, how are the details of Jesus’ crucifixion under the Roman government (a historical event uncontested by virtually every critical scholar), predicted 500 years before hand, a self-fulfilling prophecy?”

    K: “Don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you’re either making this up, or you are misinformed. But feel free to provide me with a link where I can find more information on this recorded historical event. Oh, and just for fun, try to provide me with a secular page.”
    ————————————————————

    Really? I’m surprised. Jesus’ crucifixion is recognized as a real, historical event by virtually every critical scholar.

    For example, John Dominic Crossan disagrees with me on the historical reliability of the Bible. He thinks Jesus was just a cynic philosopher who didn’t say half of the stuff attributed to him in the Bible. But even Crossan admits Jesus’ crucifixion is a historcial fact.

    “Jesus’ death by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate is as sure as anything historical can ever be. For if no follower of Jesus had written anything for one hundred years after his crucifixion, we would still know about him from two authors not among his supporters. Their names are Flavius Josephus and Cornelius Tacitus.” (Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography, pg 145).

    ————————————————————
    AG: “Lee Strobel, a former legal editor for the Chicago Tribune, became convinced that Christianity is true by using his legal and journalism training to investigate Biblical prophecy.”

    K “Have you thought about that he assumes that the bible is true from the get-go?”
    ————————————————————

    Are you suggesting Strobel made his story up out of thin air? That he was never a skeptic? I think Strobel knows more than you do about the way his own personal beliefs about God changed!

    ————————————————————
    AG: “I don’t know how any of these things call into question the supernatural origin of the Bible. ”

    K: “Here’s your problem. You, like Lee Strobel, assume that it’s divinely inspired from the start.”
    ————————————————————

    Who cares what you, me or anyone else assumes at the get go? The question is, is there evidence that the Bible is more than just a book a bunch of people made up? Question: How do you explain the origin of the Bible?

    ————————————————————
    AG: “My advice is to seriously look into this stuff for yourself!”

    K: “I dare say that I have examined your side of the argument more than you have examined mine. Christianity as had 2000 years to provide evidence that a god exists, but the best thing that exists is a probably forged account by Josephus.”
    ————————————————————

    Really? Again, I’m surprised. Why haven’t you examined the 5 classical arguments for the existence of God?

  18. Neil Mammen October 5, 2011 12:01 AM
    #

    Some of you guys seem hung up on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 accounts….
    Here’s my research: http://www.noblindfaith.com/writings/Are_there_two_creation_stories_in_Genesis.pdf

  19. Apologetics Guy October 5, 2011 12:03 AM
    #

    @Allie – “They claim contradictions and assume if there’s some minor difference in description of events, it automatically disproves the Bible.” Good observation. We’ve got to ask, “Even if this were insurmountable, does it follow that naturalism is true?” Thanks for the comment, Allie!

  20. ray October 5, 2011 11:30 AM
    #

    my response to neil mammen; neil i read your link. the very last verse is right. god made adam with feminine dna also. he just took that part out to make woman. you just dont know the TRUTH. please dont be mad with me. its like a movie. sometimes if you miss the first minute you will never understand what the movie is about till the end. read the old kjv. genesis chapter 1. verse 1. and 2 are the most important verses in the bible. dont read over them. search them two verses out.. find out what them two verses means. then you will know the real truth. EZEKIEL, CHPTR. 13. VERESES 18 THROUGH2 22 OLD KJV. they have coverd the truth from you. please dont be mad with me. please search out them first two verses in genesis. you dont want to miss the wedding party. becaus the bridegroom is comming.

  21. Apologetics Guy October 5, 2011 12:46 PM
    #

    Thanks for posting your research on this this, Neil.

  22. ray October 5, 2011 7:49 PM
    #

    ap guy; im trying to figure out if you belive in the bible or not.. could you please tell me. yes or no..and if you do wich one. are you babtist or what. i dont understand exactly what your purpose is. or am i just being left out. if you dont want me to write you any more its ok.

  23. Apologetics Guy October 5, 2011 10:40 PM
    #

    Hi Ray,

    Sorry for the late reply. I teach night classes as well and I just got back home. To answer your questions:

    1. Yes. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.
    2. Any scholarly translation that is faithful to the earliest and best manuscripts we have available is OK in my book, but I personally read the NIV more than any other English translation. I like the NASB best for study and I also have an ESV on my Kindle which I read occasionally.
    3. I am an ordained Baptist minister.
    4. My primary purpose on this Web site is to help Christians defend the faith with confidence. My secondary purpose is to develop Christian leaders who can help other Christians defend the faith with confidence.

    You can find out more about what “apologetics” is and where I’m coming from by checking out the foundational posts here.

    http://www.apologeticsguy.com/2011/05/the-foundational-posts/

  24. ray October 6, 2011 5:13 PM
    #

    thank you AP GUY. i know theirs not enough time in the day for everything. but one day we will be where their is no time at all. i know you know what im talking about. but. a very serious question. is this true. some one told told me this. im just learning. i know you have been learning and teaching for a lot longer than me. so the way a person can tell if a man is truly called of GOD to be a teacher is. if i sat down with my teacher and open my book. the one he told told me to read. and read any book, any chapter, and any verse for one hour without stoping. a different book and chptr.,and verses every time, just random. any i choose. and read it to him. he should be abel to tell me what book it is and what chptr. it is and verses . every time. and fairly quickly. have you heard this? can any man memorize the bible?

  25. Apologetics Guy October 6, 2011 8:52 PM
    #

    Hi, Ray. I’m not sure when you got the idea that someone who is “truly called of God as a teacher” has to memorize the entire Bible. I don’t know anyone who has done that! I certainly haven’t. But if you read any part of the Bible to me for an hour, I could certainly tell you what you were reading. There are entire books of the Bible that you could read out loud in less than an hour! Would you mind telling me a bit about your background? Might help me understand a bit more about where you are coming from.

  26. ray October 7, 2011 4:02 PM
    #

    AP GUY; im poor, uneducated white person. i do not live in the city. never have. i have been wathcing arnold murry. im sure you heard of him. their are some reports, that he made some false predictions. do you know if this true. seen some videos. but picture blocked out, just sound. but bad quaility sound. their so many different churches and everybody tells you something different. how is a man supposed to know what to belive. i belive in GOD; just dont want to be tricked in to beliveing false teaching. my problem is i dont know who or what to belive.

  27. Apologetics Guy October 7, 2011 9:25 PM
    #

    Hi Ray,

    My advice is to try to find a Bible-believing church in your area that holds to the essentials of historic Christianity. It seems that Murray rejects the doctrine of the Trinity—the biblical view of God eternally existing in three divine persons: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Haven’t heard about his recent prophecies, but I believe he predicted the battle of Armageddon would occur in 1985—in Alaska! Steer clear from this teacher and his aberrant theology.

  28. ray October 8, 2011 7:38 PM
    #

    AP GUY; thanks for the advice. i really appreciate it. very much. i dont know where is in the bible. but paul said. i hear their is some divison among you. he said their should be none. one doctrine. one church. in my mind it cant be just the essentials. it has to be the true one.one of the most important messages in the bible is. all the false teachings in the latter days. i thought arnold murray was ok. but ive searched about his false propkecie. and i cant find any proof. just some one says so in their web site. their is a video, but the picture is blocked out. just sound. cant tell if its him. so. i just wont go to any church. thanks.

  29. Apologetics Guy October 8, 2011 8:52 PM
    #

    Hi, Ray. I believe you should take seriously the command in Hebrews 10:25 which says, “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” Are there absolutely no churches in your area that hold to the essentials of historic Christianity?

  30. ray October 9, 2011 3:04 PM
    #

    ok. AP GUY; ill find one . thanks.

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